President of the Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN), Archbishop John Onaiyekan, yesterday warned political leaders to avoid actions capable of making the country slip into chaos.
Onaiyekan gave the warning at a press briefing organised by the Association of Catholic Media Practitioners, Abuja branch to mark the end of the year activities.
He attributed growing corruption in the country to the insensitivity of political office holders to the plight of the common man even as he urged top office holders to appreciate the implications of their actions before they embark on it.
He  said the nation’s leaders should realize that they are not in office for self aggrandizement, but to consider that working for self alone could lead to disaster in the future.
“I believe and I hope those who consider themselves the leaders of our nation today would realize that they have a heavy responsibility to make sure that our nation is not allowed to slip into chaos.  That is the least we expect from them.  Nigerians have been very generous to them.
“Nigerians have not even complained about the salary they have approved for themselves.  If you work out the remunerations and take home of legislators and the other people in high officers from the budget, they run into billions and billions and we are not even complaining,” Archbishop Onaiyekan stressed.
On whether it would not be better to call for military option than allow corrupt politicians continue to rule the nation, the cleric said: “I don’t like military rule; soldiers have no business in government.  They have done their best for 30 years and we have no doubt they are not good.  If they are good, they had 30 years to prove it but they failed woefully.
“I do not think it is in the interest of anybody to think our future lies with a group of soldiers who would be responsible to no one but whoever put them there. I believe if  soldiers announce they have taken over government, I hope I will not be the only one to say no, no, no to them.
“We have reached a stage where we can say no to them.  But that is not to say they should continue to mess up the entire nation.  Chaos is worse than military rule.  That is what is happening in Eastern Congo.  The man in Kinshasha does not know what is happening in Kisangali or elsewhere.  Everywhere is full of soldiers but they operate in small pockets, full of arms, illegally digging for gold and other minerals.
“They just dig up the mineral, buy gun, kill one another.  Is that what we want for Nigeria?  I think any reasonable soldier should know that, that is not the way out.  I am hoping that Nigeria will not tolerate another military coup or military government.  The whole world has put that behind them; that is not how to move forward”.
Speaking on the state of health of President Umaru Musa Yar’Adua, Onaiyekan noted that the problem is that those in government does not want to give out information about the true state of the president’s health, which he described as worrisome.
He said while it was good to pray for the quick recovery of the President, it would have been better to allow the constitutional provisions to be respected so as to produce the person who would be responsible for state affairs while the President recuperates.
“The problem we have right now in this nation is utter confusion.  People don’t know what is happening.  So, it is really difficult to say where we are going.  What I am hearing around is that there are lots of faceless individuals that are actually controlling our affairs and that is not good for a nation.
“If I were in a position, I would be able to make sure that decisions are taken according to the prescriptions in the constitution; that the letters are respected and that it is only the wish of the people that shall prevail at all times.
“I believe that the kind of debate we hear in the media about whether there is anybody effectively in control of the nation right now, that the President is very much out of circulation.  That kind of debate ought not to be.  It is not right that we are not sure.
“If indeed the President is capable and in good health, then, let him come home.  But if he is not, it is not right to keep on guessing what exactly is happening and the constitution has provisions for situations like this.  I don’t even have to look for a way out.  I am a Bishop in-charge of Abuja Archdiocese.
“Every time I travel out of Abuja, everybody knows whom to see if I am away; somebody is in charge, even though there are some decisions that must not be taken without my consultations, but somebody is in-charge.  But from what we read in the media and the arguments and counter arguments among the ruling elite, it means that we are not doing well yet.  Why can’t we fix the problem?
“If it is affecting us as Nigerians, surely it is affecting those who are looking at us from abroad.  We shouldn’t delay this so long.  So, we pray for the good health of our president and also of Nigeria.  The good health of Nigeria is certainly as important.
“I believe that those who should take the right decisions have no point trying to exonerate themselves from taking the decisions that need to be taken, from the president right down to all those who are involved in this matter.
“It is not enough to say we should pray for his recovery, of course, we are doing that but, when the president of a nation is sick it is not the same as when my uncle in the village is sick.  There is a difference and it is not right to tell everybody to consider it as purely a personal affair.  If the president is sick, we are all sick and we are all concerned.
“We have just finished a big international meeting in Copenhagen and they were mentioning countries there I kept listening, I never heard my country mentioned even once, that is not good for us at all,” he added.
On the current fuel crises in the country, Onayekan believes it was not targeted at making the Christmas uncomfortable for Christians, but said  that it was a problem which can be fixed if those responsible for energy matters had taken their duties more seriously.

Hon. Adams Jagaba was a member of the House of Representatives between 1999 and 2003. He was chairman, House Committee on Anti corruption while in the house. He is currently the secretary of the ruling Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) in Kaduna state. In this interview with Correspondent RANA BAYOK in Kaduna, the former law maker speaks on several issues including the endemic corruption that has continued to retard the progress of the Nigerian nation , advocating death sentence for corrupt people . Excerpts

Today the country is still battling with corruption under the present administration. What is your assessment of the anti corruption crusade.

In my opinion, we are doing well in the anti corruption crusade because there is a sharp difference between the Nuhu Ribadu era and what is happening now. Ribadu was more of media man, making a lot of noise. All the arrests during his time were politically motivated. In my opinion, the Farida Waziri era don’t believe in noise making, they believe in action. I can see that, given the chance, she can perform much better.

Are you not embarrassed with the fact that the rate of corruption in the country is still very high in spite of all the crusades against it?

I am not just embarrassed, but I am ashamed disappointed that corruption is has continued to thrive in our society, I am ashamed. Personally I will say we are just paying lip service to the fight against corruption. We are all guilty of this. I am yet to see a real committed fight against corruption.

The government has been beating its chest for the jailing of Olabode George and others.

If you look at Olabode George’s offence and the sentence, you will wonder whether the sentence is commensurate with the offence he committed. The essence of punishment is to deter people from committing that offence. If I still N10 billion and you jail me for three years, I will prefer to still the N10 billion and enjoy the money after serving three years in jail. So to me, it does not make sense. The sentence should have serve as deterrent for corruption. Look at the Asian country, if you are caught with even Kilo of Cocaine, they will sentence you to death. So no drug pusher is likely to pass through those countries because of the fear of being sentence to death. As far as I am concerned, the sentence passed on Olabode George encourages corruption.

It is the National Assembly that made that law; did you expect the judge to go outside the stipulated law?

Even within the law of the National Assembly, that is not the maximum punishment for that offence. There are provisions for judges to use their discretion, but this judgment is highly disappointing.

Would support the call for death sentence for corrupt people?

Sincerely speaking, even though armed robbery is condemnable, there should be more sympathy for armed robbers than corrupt people. Those who loot public funds should face stiffer consequences than armed robbers. This is not to say I support armed robbery, but the effect of looting public funds is so devastating and as it affects everybody. An armed robber may just rob a household or some few households but if you still public funds, it will affect the entire nation and generations yet unborn. In addition, you are inculcating corruption into the young ones. The damage that is being caused by armed robbers is not up to one percent of the damage that is being caused by those who loot public funds that would have been used for the building of school, hospitals, roads etc for the generality of the people as well as create employment opportunities for the youths to stop them from indulging in criminal activities like armed robbery. In my own opinion any body caught looting public funds, should be executed publicly.

Let’s talk about the politics of Kaduna state. We have been watching events in the state with keen interest and there is this fear being expressed that the ruling PDP in the state may be plunged into crisis. With this seeming crisis, do you think PDP has a chance in 2011?

Definitely there are crisis and you can naturally find crisis where there are resources, where things are happening, if the PDP were a dormant party or if it were not a winning party, definitely you won’t find any in-house fighting. What is happening is an in-house affair. It is nothing unusual in a democratic party. All these are just mere internal problems that can be resolved and the party is going to resolved it. So there is no treat to PDP in 2011.

In Kano, internal crisis was responsible for the PDP loosing the state to the opposition ANPP. Don’t you think the same thing can happen in Kaduna?

It can not happen in Kaduna because we have learned from the Kano experience. We will do all it takes to resolve things amicably.

Can you tell us the nature of the crisis and how the party in the state is going about it?

You are a media man. You talk to a lot of people and I am sure you must have heard some of these things. I think it is general discontentment as a result of managing crisis. For instance, if you have three wives and your finances can only buy a car for one of your wives, you have to plead with others to wait. So in a situation where you buy one car for one of your wives, the other wives, will abuse you, all it takes it to plead with them to give you time to raise funds to buy theirs for them. The government is doing everything to make sure that party members are carried along for the success of the party in 2011.

You are basically talking about the interest of the party men, not what the people will get.

No, you cannot isolate the interest of the party members and what the people can get. I can request that a secondary school or a hospital be built in my community; this is my personal interest as well as the interest of my community. If I am representing my people if elections comes I am the one that go to woo the people to vote for the governor, then it is my personal interest to get something for them. They are inter woven so you cannot separate the two, they not saying they should be given free money, no they are talking of location of projects. May be you go to ask for a particular project to be located in your community and you are told that a similar project is located in a community near yours and you are told that the nest budget will take care of your own

To what extent is the problem with the incumbent governor, Arc. Mohammed Namadi Sambo and the former governor, Senator Ahmed Mohammed Makarfi affecting the party.

My personal opinion as the secretary of the PDP in the state, the problem between Sambo and Makarfi are man made. You know the rumour mill industry in Nigeria is so rich; in fact, it is reacher than the Nigerian Petroleum Corporation. Some people feed on telling lies and carrying spreading rumours. They are people that are projecting this as a big problem, but I want to assure you that the two of them have no problem. Makarfi brought Sambo, they have been meeting and they understand themselves. It is just that some people want to make a living by creating confusion. I want to tell you that these types of people will be disappoint because, as a party, we will ensure that there is no crack.

Some people are saying that the present administration is being hijacked by a cabal to the extent that policies that the administration would have pursued successfully, these cabals are throwing spanners to ensure that nothing works.

I don’t know your sources of information, but one thing I want to tell you is that the governor has the capacity to act and take decisions for the state. So I don’t see any cabal influencing him the way people are insinuating. The governor is a man of his own word and he does what is good for his government but if there people that are influencing him, I am not aware of that.

It is about three years now and you are talking about how to patronise members, don’t you think that this will affect you in the next election.

One thing I want you to understand is that government is continuity and I want to assure you that governor Sambo is one of the few governors, if at all there is any, that embarked upon billions of naira deliberately left by his predecessor. Sambo completely all these projects one hundred percent and paid. Other governor, when they are elected, they revoke all contracts awarded by their predecessor even before they are sworn in. But Sambo did not do that. He completed all the projects he inherited from his predecessor. He is now focusing on other issues that needed his attention. We should equally know that there is economic meltdown. In any case, the governor is trying in spite of the circumstances he found himself.

Some people have continued to criticize the governor for building a N4 billion Government House while there is no water and good road network.

The truth of the matter is that I am not aware of any Government House that is being built at N4 billion, go and cross check properly. But one thing I do know is that there is no two ways about building a new Government House, you should realise that the structures at the Government House were built during the colonial era and they are wearing away. There had been several renovation works on the Government House by various governors. Look at the bridge at River Kaduna, it is wearing away, so building a new Government House that befits Kaduna, the Northern Headquarters, to me, is even more viable than to have a governor that you cannot see any project and you don’t know where the money goes. The governor is not building it for himself, he is building it for the state, and all the future governors in the state will stay there. So as far as I am concern that is a good project and he has the full support of the party.

The opposition Action Congress (AC) in the state has been an ardent critic of the governor, recently the party was accusing the governor for his frequent foreign trips, saying such trips amount to truancy.

I just want to use this opportunity to sympathise with the AC, particularly their secretary who has been making all sorts of statements in the media. I wonder where he has been all these years that it is only now that he is talking. Let me tell you something. All those that matters in the AC have decamped to the PDP and he is so aggrieve that is why he goes about saying all sort of things. The governor is a friend to every party in this state; they have their representatives even in his cabinet. The problem of the man is that the governor has been able to bring all the prominent people in the AC to the PDP. However I want to tell you that Kaduna state is benefiting from the governor’s trips. He is bringing in money for the development of the state, money that has no interest rate for financing projects in the state. The governor is traveling for the good of the state. a lot of foreign investors are interested in the New City project, people are coning from UK, USA, Dubai, etc to invest. All these are courtesy of the trips. Normally people complained but by the time they start seeing viable projects, they understand. I the secretary of the AC is confused, he go to their secretariat, and the place is empty and he doesn’t know what to do. I pity him.

You were a member of the House of Representatives, the House of Representatives and the Senate were quarrelling over which chamber is more superiority, do you support that kind of thing?

The history is that normally, you meet at the chambers of the House of Representatives because it was deliberately designed to accommodate both houses. The chambers of the House of Representatives can conveniently sit everybody from the two houses, not so with the chambers of the senate. To answer your question, I will say it was a man made problem.

In many countries, if a president suffers from some kind of sickness that incapacitates him from functioning, another person takes over. Why is the case of Nigeria different?

I am not sure the case of Nigeria is different; the president just went for a medical check and some people are saying he should resign, when he reaches a level that he will not be able to continue, no body will advise him, he resign. We are making an issue when there is non. When it is time for him to leave, he will leave. For now, he went for medical and the doctors are advising him to stay on so that they can he see improvement before he comes back. I think the president is a man of integrity and at any time he feels he cannot cope, he will tell Nigerians, but for now let us not create any problem where there is non.

Traditional rulers are agitating for a role in the constitution, is it possible to combine the presidential system with feudalism.

If I were in the National Assembly, I will not support that idea. Traditional rulers should remain as traditional rulers; they shouldn’t be involved in politics as the custodians of our traditional values. They will be respected. The moment you get them involve in politics, they will no longer protect the interest of the people. Have you ever heard a traditional ruler coming out to challenge for maltreating his people government? Even at the moment, they are part of government, this should not be so. Traditional rulers should close to the people so whenever he speaks, he will say thus says my people and the government will respect him the more and the people will respect them. So personally, if I were in the National Assembly, I will not support any role for them.